Modchip Debate

[misteromar]

I wonder how they got around the problem of whatever game ID you boot as being the save ID.

And as someone has said, it's now only a matter of time before Nintendo releases a patch to prevent the use of this item, which is 100% illegal in Australia.
If it is so black and white illegal this is it just a matter of someone having the balls to sue them about it.

Although I completely understand your argument TS, I would never discount it. Our right to mod consoles and to have free access to region free DVD players is, after all, due to Eddy Stevens' gutsy effort against Sony and the mod chip saga (and region lock out ruling) all those years ago.

Someone will do it. As to when, well, I don't know, but we can have confidence in the fact that when we use circumnavigation software and mod chips, we do it with the full protection of that ruling, as it has been determined that, under the Trade Practices Act, region coding is anticompetitive and illegal.

I have been hoping for a while that someone would take the console makers to court in Aust to force them to make all consoles here region free. Im not a lawyer but with the previous ruling it would have chance and if this was successful then this would also allow the console makers to have another crack at banning mod chips here because there would be legal no loophole for them to sold anymore. It would be win for us and them.

[Smoko]

I have been hoping for a while that someone would take the console makers to court in Aust to force them to make all consoles here region free. Im not a lawyer but with the previous ruling it would have chance and if this was successful then would also allow the console makers to also having another crack at banning mod chips here because there would be legal loophole for them to sold anymore. It would be win for us and them.

The day modding is banned in Australia is the day I'll be disappointed with our government for caving to corporations. Why should Nintendo or anyone else be able to say what I can and can't run on my hardware?

[TetsuoKunio]

Because they built it.

[Smoko]

Because they built it.

What's your point? They build it, I buy and own it. I'm not renting it from them, so I should be able to decide if I want to run unlicensed code on it. According to your logic it'd be perfectly acceptable if Sony made it so their DVD burners would only write or read Sony media, or Toyota saying I could only use a certain brand of tiers on my car.

There's plenty of other examples I could give explaining why your reasoning is a load of crap, but if you can't understand from the two examples given above you're a lost cause.

[mario_128]

well nissan wont let you change the tyresw on the GTR without wrecking the car

but still lets hope the next nin is like the ds and region free

[TetsuoKunio]

Because they built it.
According to your logic it'd be perfectly acceptable if Sony made it so their DVD burners would only write or read Sony media, or Toyota saying I could only use a certain brand of tiers on my car.
Sony could actually if they wanted too, but no one would buy a sony dvd burner. And Toyota... Dude, that's just F***ing retarded. According to my logic, you're doing something illegal to Nintendo. You own it, it's got their name on it. Eventually Nintendo might just give up on bricking the stuff when it gets too out of hand. Maybe we'll get lucky this time. Modding isn't banned in Australia and I doubt it ever will. Still, Nintendo bricks for a reason. They get a shit load more money from us when we buy a game here in Australia than what we pay for an import.

Why should Nintendo or anyone else be able to say what I can and can't run on my hardware? Because they F***ing built the thing and can F*** you over through Firmware updates. My logic is like I have sex, because I F***ing can. And that's what Nintendo is doing to your Wii, cause damn it feels good to them.

[Gus the Crocodile]

^ fixed

Sony could actually if they wanted too

I think you completely missed the point. Smoko didn't say it would be illegal for Sony/Nintendo/Toyota to do this stuff, he said it would be unacceptable. And as far as I'm concerned, he's right. In fact I nearly made a very similar post in response to misteromar last night, but it was a bit late to be starting an argument.

As Smoko says, the problem (rather, one of the problems) with banning modchips is that it comes dangerously close to simply removing the right of people to alter or improve things they own if the original seller dislikes the change. That could apply to everything from running a previously unsupported movie format on your iPod, to shortening the legs on a table, to renovating your house. The corporations love the idea - that consumers never really own anything, they just lease it on XYZ conditions. But it's something that should never be encouraged, because a) removing people's ability to tinker with things will severely hamper the human capacities for invention and self-expresssion, and b) it would reinforce the notion of a two-tier society in which the rich and powerful dictate the rules by which the majority may live their lives.

It's unnecessary to ban modchips anyway, because what should be the real target in doing so - piracy - is already against the law. If you're going to ban devices that allow pirated content to be played, well, there goes every PC in the world. If you're going to ban devices that allow crimes to be committed, well...you'd be hard pressed to furnish your house afterward.

[mario_128]

get over it if nin cant produce the good on time then it is our only option

[Smoko]

Sony could actually if they wanted too, but no one would buy a sony dvd burner.

I never said they couldn't.

And Toyota... Dude, that's just F***ing retarded.

Of course it is and that's what makes it a good example. It shows how flawed your logic is.

According to my logic, you're doing something illegal to Nintendo. You own it, it's got their name on it.

In what sense are you using the term illegal? Illegal by Nintendo's view or illegal according to the law? Because if it's Nintendo's view your argument is instantly invalid.

Why should Nintendo or anyone else be able to say what I can and can't run on my hardware? Because they F***ing built the thing and can F*** you over through Firmware updates. My logic is like I have sex, because I F***ing can. And that's what Nintendo is doing to your Wii, cause damn it feels good to them.

Clearly I'd get further debating the subject with an autistic baby.

Just because you can do something doesn't make it right. I own the hardware so I should be able to run whatever I want on it and I shouldn't have to break the law in the process. Thankfully we aren't in America and I don't have to worry about it, for now at least.

[JemaKnight]

Clearly I'd get further debating the subject with an autistic baby.

That's about the intelligence level of most of the forum.

[misteromar]

It's unnecessary to ban modchips anyway, because what should be the real target in doing so - piracy - is already against the law. If you're going to ban devices that allow pirated content to be played, well, there goes every PC in the world. If you're going to ban devices that allow crimes to be committed, well...you'd be hard pressed to furnish your house afterward.


The thing is mod-chips and piracy go hand in hand. (I dont care how muck ppl deny this, they do.) From my understanding the only reason they are legal here is because they enable you to bypass region locking. The best solution for both Nintendo and consumers is if they did away with region locks in Australia.
Then they could have case against mod-chips to get them banned because they would not have the "region free" to use as a excuse. We would also win by having a region free console and games.

[JemaKnight]

ATTN MISTEROMAR:

HOMEBREW, THAT IS ALL.

[Smoko]

The thing is mod-chips and piracy go hand in hand. (I dont care how muck ppl deny this, they do.)

So do computers, internet and piracy.

From my understanding the only reason they are legal here is because they enable you to bypass region locking. The best solution for both Nintendo and consumers is if they did away with region locks in Australia.
Then they could have case against mod-chips to get them banned because they would not have the "region free" to use as a excuse. We would also win by having a region free console and games.

That's not the best solution for the consumer because it potentially makes homebrew illegal. It takes away the right to do what you want with your hardware. Could you explain why you don't mind being told what you can and can't do with your own things?

[misteromar]

@ jema knight and smoko.

I got nothing against homebrew, the shit is interesting. But true homebrew ppl are a fraction of 1% of wii users and dont realy matter. But it dont matter though because modchips dont play homebrew, they do 2 things region free and play pirated games. Take away region free and what do mod chips have left?

The thing I dont get about homebrew is that ppl spend so much time trying to make something run on a console that could be done better and easier on a pc. If you want to write code , make games and other apps, why not just use a pc?

[Smoko]

I got nothing against homebrew, the shit is interesting. But true homebrew ppl are a fraction of 1% of wii users and dont realy matter. But it dont matter though because modchips dont play homebrew, they do 2 things region free and play pirated games. Take away region free and what do mod chips have left?

Do you know anything about modchips at all? Because modchips on pretty much every console enables homebrew.

What is a "true" homebrew person?

Why does it matter how many there is?

Why do you talk as if the Wii is the only console with modchips?

How do you know how many "true" homebrew people there are?

Why do you ignore that the Wii modchips enable GameCube homebrew?

Why do you ignore that the Wii modchips recently enabled native (http://www.ingenieria-inversa.cl/?p=12) homebrew?

Who said anything about you having something against homebrew? I'm asking why Nintendo and everyone else should be able to say what we do and run with our own hardware.

The thing I dont get about homebrew is that ppl spend so much time trying to make something run on a console that could be done better and easier on a pc. If you want to write code , make games and other apps, why not just use a pc?

Because PC development isn't as challenging, there's millions of different PC setups making it difficult to have everything work with little trouble for the developer and end user.

[misteromar]

I got nothing against homebrew, the shit is interesting. But true homebrew ppl are a fraction of 1% of wii users and dont realy matter. But it dont matter though because modchips dont play homebrew, they do 2 things region free and play pirated games. Take away region free and what do mod chips have left?

Do you know anything about modchips at all? Because modchips on pretty much every console enables homebrew.

What is a "true" homebrew person?

Why does it matter how many there is?

Why do you talk as if the Wii is the only console with modchips?

How do you know how many "true" homebrew people there are?

Why do you ignore that the Wii modchips enable GameCube homebrew?

Why do you ignore that the Wii modchips recently enabled native (http://www.ingenieria-inversa.cl/?p=12) homebrew?

Who said anything about you having something against homebrew? I'm asking why Nintendo and everyone else should be able to say what we do and run with our own hardware.

The thing I dont get about homebrew is that ppl spend so much time trying to make something run on a console that could be done better and easier on a pc. If you want to write code , make games and other apps, why not just use a pc?

Because PC development isn't as challenging, there's millions of different PC setups making it difficult to have everything work with little trouble for the developer and end user.

1) a guy that have skills and code, knows all the tech stuff etc, apposed to the cats that just use it as a excuse to hide to behind so they can download pirated games.

2) Why should Nintendo expose themself to the risk of piracy for small group of ppl who they make little money of. Homebrew is not a god given right, Nintendo systems are made to play Nintendo games.

3) Its a nintendo site.

4) A realistic assumption.

5) Use a GC for GC homebrew.

6) Its still not there yet though.

7) They make Nintendo console to plat their games, thats it. They have no obligation to make it run other stuff. Why should they?

[JemaKnight]

Misteromar, all of that was incredibly stupid, but there was one thing that really didn't make any sense.

5) Use a GC for GC homebrew.

How come, in your logic, it's ok to use a GC for homebrew, but not a Wii?

[Smoko]

1) a guy that have skills and code, knows all the tech stuff etc, apposed to the cats that just use it as a excuse to hide to behind so they can download pirated games.

Why does someone have to know how to make homebrew to use it or be a real homebrew user?

2) Why should Nintendo expose themself to the risk of piracy for small group of ppl who they make little money of. Homebrew is not a god given right, Nintendo systems are made to play Nintendo games.

If they took the time to develop a system where people could run their own code like the XNA only free or cheap for a lifetime license they wouldn't have to open the ability to pirate. Of course the ability to run the homebrew code would have to be free, unlike the XNA for people to take it seriously.

3) Its a nintendo site.

Who cares? You're talking about getting all modchips banned, so why not talk about their functionality instead of only the Wiis?

4) A realistic assumption.

Yeah. Realistically stupid.

5) Use a GC for GC homebrew.

Wait... why can I mod the GameCube but not the Wii?

6) Its still not there yet though.

What do you mean it's still not there? Clearly you've got nothing to counter that so you try and give us a stupid reply in an attempt to explode our heads rendering us incapable of calling you a moron.

7) They make Nintendo console to plat their games, thats it. They have no obligation to make it run other stuff. Why should they?

They don't make it run other stuff, the homebrew community does it. Once again you're trying to make our heads explode. Please stop trying to counter our points when you have nothing to counter them with. It's only showing how stupid and ignorant you really are.

You still haven't answered my original question. Why don't you mind being told what you can and can't do with stuff you own?

[JemaKnight]

Say you built someone a PC, would it be ok for you to have complete control over it after they bought it?

[TetsuoKunio]

I never said they couldn't.
What's that what I meant. I stated "Sony could actually if they wanted too, but no one would buy a sony dvd burner." which is why your comparison was stupid. Because Wii's are still clearly being bought.

Of course it is and that's what makes it a good example. It shows how flawed your logic is.
WHAT?! No it doesn't. You're comparing a Wii and Modding topic to a tyre on a Toyota... It doesn't even mean a great deal to Australia.

In what sense are you using the term illegal? Illegal by Nintendo's view or illegal according to the law? Because if it's Nintendo's view your argument is instantly invalid.
What, because you said so? :? Damn... :( . If it's not licensed by Nintendo... That kinda makes it illegal to use on their console. Same with Freeloaders, which is why they brick them.

Just because you can do something doesn't make it right.
MUMMY! Nintendo is fighting back with Firmware updates in a totally legal way!
I'm gonna bitch about it! Blah Blah Blah! :cry:

I think you completely missed the point. Smoko didn't say it would be illegal for Sony/Nintendo/Toyota to do this stuff, he said it would be unacceptable
Obviously I didn't explain it well enough. Smoko's reasoning and comparisons to me is unacceptable. Sorry if my point didn't get across. But if we are all going to use silly comparisons than it's like Smoko saying "The day gay sex is banned in Australia is the day I'll be disappointed with our government for caving to the media." It hasn't been banned, so why are you bitching. You can still enjoy what you love most Smoko.

Clearly I'd get further debating the subject with an autistic baby.
I may not be able to write a proffessional argument. But I'll argue back if you're challenging my superiority over me to you. Especially if you make a half asses answer to half a quote from me. You're just being a dick.
[flash width=450 height=150:aa61388817]http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs29/f/2008/060/7/6/AN_Meeting_one_by_Outsider_Animation.swf[/flash:aa61388817]

[JemaKnight]

That's a rather awesome flash, gus is represented awesomely.


On topic sorta

Say Sony did release a DVD burner that was only compatable with Sony products, this would indeed be illegal.


Can anyone correctly tell me why?

[mario_128]

hey i am calling depatment of fair trading on monday to ask about game delays because technically it is illegal to withhold a product from a market without proper grounds.

[TetsuoKunio]

That's... Totally on topic... I think.

Pretty sure they could... But I'd like to hear why you know it's illegal. :?

[mario_128]

because nintendo purposly locks its consoles so that they can only be played in certain regions then it pumps up the price if the currency rate wer 50 cents to a dolla it would be fine but a 92 cents!!!!!!!!!! aat least do what apple did in france and ell an unlocked wii for amybe 50 dollars more

[TetsuoKunio]

That's what I thought was the reasoning behind locking. But my last post was to JemaKnight. Sorry.

[Heinz]

hey i am calling depatment of fair trading on monday to ask about game delays because technically it is illegal to withhold a product from a market without proper grounds.

Are you serious? Their "proper grounds" are the standard European-translation/PAL region printing excuse which is quite valid. It just happens they do all of this after the US gets it.

[JemaKnight]

That's... Totally on topic... I think.

Pretty sure they could... But I'd like to hear why you know it's illegal. :?

Because they wouldn't be allowed to market it as a DVD burner, only a *sony format* burner.

[Smoko]

What's that what I meant. I stated "Sony could actually if they wanted too, but no one would buy a sony dvd burner." which is why your comparison was stupid. Because Wii's are still clearly being bought.

Of course they are still selling, they do what most people want it to do. Homebrew users included. What I'm trying to get across is that if modding was made illegal we'd lose the ability to use our hardware how we want.

WHAT?! No it doesn't. You're comparing a Wii and Modding topic to a tyre on a Toyota... It doesn't even mean a great deal to Australia.

I'm not sure how it meaning anything to Australia is relevant but my point still stands. Why should we be told what we can and can't do with what we own?

What, because you said so? :? Damn... :( . If it's not licensed by Nintendo... That kinda makes it illegal to use on their console. Same with Freeloaders, which is why they brick them.

It doesn't make it illegal at all. It makes them against their usage agreements which in turn voids our warranty if they find out about it. Guess what? We understand and accept that. Just because we void our warranty doesn't mean they should be able to ruin our hardware.

MUMMY! Nintendo is fighting back with Firmware updates in a totally legal way!
I'm gonna bitch about it! Blah Blah Blah! :cry:

Intentionally ruining something people own because they run something you don't want them to is against the law. It can be seen as a form of vandalism.

Obviously I didn't explain it well enough. Smoko's reasoning and comparisons to me is unacceptable. Sorry if my point didn't get across. But if we are all going to use silly comparisons than it's like Smoko saying "The day gay sex is banned in Australia is the day I'll be disappointed with our government for caving to the media." It hasn't been banned, so why are you bitching. You can still enjoy what you love most Smoko.

The government wouldn't be caving to the media, they'd be caving to religions. Also, I'm not complaining. I'm asking why people are fine with being told what they can and can't do with what they own.

I may not be able to write a proffessional argument. But I'll argue back if you're challenging my superiority over me to you. Especially if you make a half asses answer to half a quote from me. You're just being a dick.
[flash width=450 height=150:34c7521621]http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs29/f/2008/060/7/6/AN_Meeting_one_by_Outsider_Animation.swf[/flash:34c7521621]

Why didn't you take the time to understand what Gus and I are saying instead of making that small animation up?

[misteromar]

Misteromar, all of that was incredibly stupid, but there was one thing that really didn't make any sense.

5) Use a GC for GC homebrew.

How come, in your logic, it's ok to use a GC for homebrew, but not a Wii?

Its a dead system and does not affect new game sales.

[JemaKnight]

Misteromar, all of that was incredibly stupid, but there was one thing that really didn't make any sense.

5) Use a GC for GC homebrew.

How come, in your logic, it's ok to use a GC for homebrew, but not a Wii?

Its a dead system and does not affect new game sales.

Congratulation misteromar, you are the winner of the "Stupidest Post March 2008 Award"

A basket of failure will arrive at your door soon.

[TetsuoKunio]

Because when you start ranting crap. People arn't going to like you, and they won't listen to you. Because all you do is crap on.
Than before you let them debate back on the argument. You're like, hey. You're retarded, where's your proof? YOU DON'T HAVE ANY! Stop talking.

Plus the animation is Funny, puts you in your place, and Gus looks pretty darn sexy. Everyone wins.
STOP TALKING!

Anyway, if I could have my way. I'd ban mod-chips. Just for the simple fact that I know there will eventually be an unstoppable FreeLoader and Nintendo won't be bothered to fix it with Firmware. But apart from that, most people use Modding for burning games. Some people out there could be doing the right thing. But I'm pretty sure Nintendo has two options.

A) Piss alot of people off with Bricking stuff but being able to sell legit copies and making more money.
or B) Let Piracy, homebrew and communism flow.

[snes101]

...how does homebrew affect new game sales exactly? Please tell me, I'm curious.

[misteromar]

I dont get why people think that its their right to be able to run homebrew on a console? Why not just use a pc?

[snes101]

I dont get why people think that its their right to be able to run homebrew on a console? Why not just use a pc?
That's not answering my question.

[SabreLime]

You're retarded, where's your proof? YOU DON'T HAVE ANY! Stop talking.

[JemaKnight]

I dont get why people think that its their right to be able to run homebrew on a console?

Well, you see,

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1595/itisud1.png

Why not just use a pc?

Because the PC doesn't have a Wiimote, is hooked up to a TV all the time etc.

The Wii does things that the PC won't.

[misteromar]

...how does homebrew affect new game sales exactly? Please tell me, I'm curious.

Well unfortanley for homebrew cats, homebrew and piracy go hand in hand because to run homebrew you need to bypass the same secruity that allows people to run pirated games.

[Toadsiliwraith]

Guys please. There's no need to carry on like this in a news article thread, as it just reflects badly on the community's image as a whole. Such a discussion is better had in either the forum's Freeloader thread or a new debate in regards to homebrew; it would be more than being "Mildly on topic" there. :\

[JemaKnight]

...how does homebrew affect new game sales exactly? Please tell me, I'm curious.

Well unfortanley for homebrew cats, homebrew and piracy go hand in hand because to run homebrew you need to bypass the same secruity that allows people to run pirated games.

Having a brick allows you to build a house, it also allows you to hit someone over the head and kill them.

That doesn't mean someone is going to do it.

[misteromar]

You're retarded, where's your proof? YOU DON'T HAVE ANY! Stop talking.

WOW dont take people having different opinion so personal, I dont agree with others thinking on modchips but I dont hate the person.

[Smoko]

Its a dead system and does not affect new game sales.

But if you were to have your way we wouldn't be able to run homebrew on it because it's illegal. You still haven't answered my question. Is that because you know your answer will ruin your arguments against modchips or because you don't mind bending over backwards taking commands?

Because when you start ranting crap. People arn't going to like you, and they won't listen to you. Because all you do is crap on.
Than before you let them debate back on the argument. You're like, hey. You're retarded, where's your proof? YOU DON'T HAVE ANY! Stop talking.

I don't crap on. I give valid points and reasoning which get ignored or twisted so you people can reply avoiding the point of discussion.

Plus the animation is Funny, puts you in your place, and Gus looks pretty darn sexy. Everyone wins.
STOP TALKING!

How does it put me in my place?

Anyway, if I could have my way. I'd ban mod-chips. Just for the simple fact that I know there will eventually be an unstoppable FreeLoader and Nintendo won't be bothered to fix it with Firmware. But apart from that, most people use Modding for burning games. Some people out there could be doing the right thing. But I'm pretty sure Nintendo has two options.

A) Piss alot of people off with Bricking stuff but being able to sell legit copies and making more money.
or B) Let Piracy, homebrew and communism flow.

I've already stated ways they could have mods banned, please the homebrew community and fight piracy. What I find amusing is that you guys are completely fine with commercial homebrew (freeloaders, action replay). You know that these rely on mods/hacks to work. Right?

I dont get why people think that its their right to be able to run homebrew on a console? Why not just use a pc?

I've already said why people like console homebrew in a previous post.

Well unfortanley for homebrew cats, homebrew and piracy go hand in hand because to run homebrew you need to bypass the same secruity that allows people to run pirated games.

You'd better ban the internet, computers, video recorders, DVRs and a whole bunch of other things. They all enable piracy too!

[misteromar]

You'd better ban the internet, computers, video recorders, DVRs and a whole bunch of other things. They all enable piracy too!


Yeah but with those they have a main purpose, were as modchips 2 main purposes are piracy and region free, if you take region free away, its just piracy.

I have no problem with homebrew, I just dont like mod chips that allow piracy. (mind you, I hate region locks just as much and are probally just as illegal as piracy.)

[TetsuoKunio]

I don't crap on. I give valid points
LOL!

How does it put me in my place?
Because you look like a douch. But apparantly I don't have to animate do that anymore. LOL

You know that these rely on mods/hacks to work. Right?
Not in Australia. THANKS UK!

Is that because you know your answer will ruin your arguments against modchips or because you don't mind bending over backwards taking commands?
I didn't even get asked the question and I know it's not even worth answering.

You'd better ban the internet, computers, video recorders, DVRs and a whole bunch of other things. They all enable piracy too!
He's right fellas. The Nintendo Wii and modchips have direct relevance! I'm getting rid of it all right away.

[Smoko]

Yeah but with those they have a main purpose, were as modchips 2 main purposes are piracy and region free, if you take region free away, its just piracy.

100% region free is only available by full homebrew capabilities.

I have no problem with homebrew, I just dont like mod chips that allow piracy. (mind you, I hate region locks just as much and are probally just as illegal as piracy.)

That's great that you have no problem with homebrew and hate region locks. But why do you find it acceptable for the company to screw the consumer but not the consumer to screw the company?

Because you look like a douch. But apparantly I don't have to animate do that anymore. LOL

No, I don't. I'm asking why what we can do with our hardware should be dictated by the company who made it. Once we buy it it's ours, not theirs.

Not in Australia. THANKS UK!

Uhh... what? You're showing your lack of knowledge in the area with this post. Freeloaders and the like DO rely on mods/hacks everywhere.

I didn't even get asked the question and I know it's not even worth answering.

Asking why you don't mind being told what you can and can't do with something you own isn't worth answering?

He's right fellas. The Nintendo Wii and modchips have direct relevance! I'm getting rid of it all right away.

They do have a direct relevance. If you can't see that there's something wrong with you.

[misteromar]

That's great that you have no problem with homebrew and hate region locks. But why do you find it acceptable for the company to screw the consumer but not the consumer to screw the company?


If dont like the product they sell dont buy it.

[SabreLime]

You're retarded, where's your proof? YOU DON'T HAVE ANY! Stop talking.

WOW dont take people having different opinion so personal, I dont agree with others thinking on modchips but I dont hate the person.

That's why we'll never be the same. I hate everybody and everything, especially you, who made me type out a reply to a reply replying about my reply what was obviously a replying joke. Got it?

Also, Because when you start ranting crap. People arn't going to like you, and they won't listen to you. Because all you do is crap on.
Than before you let them debate back on the argument. You're like, hey. You're retarded, where's your proof? YOU DON'T HAVE ANY! Stop talking.

[Smoko]

If dont like the product they sell dont buy it.

Clearly you don't understand. I do like the product. I like it enough to want to write stuff for it, but people like you want to make that illegal.

[bigsim]

Goddamnit, we've danced this dance. Here's how it goes to my recollection: Smoko, Gus and a bunch of people make reasonable points. Misteromar and a bunch of other people ignore them.

Rinse and repeat.

/thread?

[TSPhoenix]

But true homebrew ppl are a fraction of 1% of wii users and dont realy matter.
And 0.000000016667% of people in in the world use the alias misteromar, does that mean you don't matter because you are a minority in that respect. No it doesn't.

...how does homebrew affect new game sales exactly? Please tell me, I'm curious.
Well unfortanley for homebrew cats, homebrew and piracy go hand in hand because to run homebrew you need to bypass the same secruity that allows people to run pirated games.
To give a second reply to this, you are also wrongly assuming that a game copied is a sale lost. My friend bought a PSP purely becuase pirating its games and emulating with it was easy, if there was no piracy he would in fact not even had bought the PSP, which is worse now?

Well unfortanley for homebrew cats, homebrew and piracy go hand in hand because to run homebrew you need to bypass the same secruity that allows people to run pirated games.
You'd better ban the internet, computers, video recorders, DVRs and a whole bunch of other things. They all enable piracy too!
To back this up, until no more than 5 years ago I believe taping TV was still illegal in Australia despite VCRs still being sold.

Just because you can do something doesn't make it right.
MUMMY! Nintendo is fighting back with Firmware updates in a totally legal way!
I'm gonna bitch about it! Blah Blah Blah! :cry:
The legality is questionable, Nintendo's EULA stipulates our Wii may cease function of modified yes and we agreed to that, but its just a EULA. A water weak contract that certainly doesn't over-ride federal law. The is no precedence as to whether intentionally breaking a modified device is legal or not yet, but I don't imagine its long until it gets tried in court.

But I'm pretty sure Nintendo has two options.

A) Piss alot of people off with Bricking stuff but being able to sell legit copies and making more money.
or B) Let Piracy, homebrew and communism flow.

Hey McCarthy, its not just "pissing off" its "infringing upon legal rights". How illegal it is remains to be seen, but if a clear case is made depicting Nintendo actively revoking devices such as freeloaders then I can imagine the outcome being favourable for the consumer.

They get a shit load more money from us when we buy a game here in Australia than what we pay for an import.
Who is the commy now? You want a controlled market where everyone gets a fair chance at raping customers and I want a purely competition based international market that is capitalist right down to the very core.

The best solution for both Nintendo and consumers is if they did away with region locks in Australia.
Then they could have case against mod-chips to get them banned because they would not have the "region free" to use as a excuse. We would also win by having a region free console and games.

I haven't modded my Wii, but only because its not a priority. If Wii was region free I wouldn't bother modding it at all most likely as the homebrew isn't that big a draw unless there was something really cool, I'd still be disappointed about not having the ability to run said homebrew though.

The DS is a good example of that, its region free, I own 40+ games most of which imported. Yet I still bought a flashcart (for comparison's sake I've played maybe 3-4 games on it that I don't own) because the DS homebrew was important to me, savsender is a fantastic tool and I enjoyed some of the other homebrew software and the ability to edit New Super Mario Bros.

Importing and running my own programs are things I consider totally reasonable things to expect out of a system as someone who's had PCs since forever. And we shouldn't have to hack them either.

Clearly I'd get further debating the subject with an autistic baby.
That's about the intelligence level of most of the forum.
Autistic babies are probably about twice as smart as the average forumer here. Maybe the communications skills of a autistic baby.

Tinyurl called, he was wondering if you want to go out some time.
Don't, I heard when TinyURL leaves town he takes his links with him.

Sorry about the arbitrary order of replies, too much trouble to sort all that. bigsim you may be right, but it never hurts to sharpen your argumentative fangs, I even picked up a few new valid points along the way.

[SabreLime]

Goddamnit, we've danced this dance. Here's how it goes to my recollection: Smoko, Gus and a bunch of people make reasonable points. Misteromar and a bunch of other people ignore them.

Rinse and repeat.

/thread?
I wasn't mentioned, so I disagree.

Arguing on the internet is like being a politician, and being a politician is fun. And having fun is a good way to enjoy life. And enjoying life is a good way to not commit suicide.

So we might be dancing the same dance, but no one minds. After all, it is quite a fun dance.

[misteromar]

And 0.000000016667% of people in in the world use the alias misteromar, does that mean you don't matter because you are a minority in that respect. No it doesn't.


Well yeah to a company wanting to make money off consumer electronics.



Goddamnit, we've danced this dance. Here's how it goes to my recollection: Smoko, Gus and a bunch of people make reasonable points. Misteromar and a bunch of other people ignore them.

Rinse and repeat.

/thread?


I feel the same in reverse, People will make weak arguments that border on idiocy when comes to admitting that mod chips are for piracy in 99% of cases.

My views are simple, modchips/piracy = bad, region locks = bad, homebrew = ok, region free = good. I also find these arguments go round and round and niether side listen much to other, unless they think they can out smart them.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Well, this certainly grew, not that that should be unexpected. I'm not going to play this time, I just thought I should say that I approve of being depicted as wearing a funny hat and smoking a pipe.

[Smoko]

Goddamnit, we've danced this dance. Here's how it goes to my recollection: Smoko, Gus and a bunch of people make reasonable points. Misteromar and a bunch of other people ignore them.

Rinse and repeat.

/thread?

We know we've had this discussion time and time again, but we don't mind having it again because we hope they'll learn something or someone else will in the process.

My views are simple, modchips/piracy = bad, region locks = bad, homebrew = ok, region free = good. I also find these arguments go round and round and niether side listen much to other, unless they think they can out smart them.

I like how you say neither side listens to each other, yet every time these threads happen every single one of your arguments gets countered and you ignore questions. I'm still waiting on an answer to my original question.

[misteromar]

yet every time these threads happen every single one of your arguments gets countered and you ignore questions. I'm still waiting on an answer to my original question.


Thats how I feel too.

[Smoko]

Thats how I feel too.

Could you point out a post where questions or points of yours have been ignored? If you read just about any of your replies to my posts in this thread you'll notice there's stuff left unanswered on your behalf. Heck, you even ignored the mention of my original question in this reply.

Where's the consistency?

They don't have any consistency.

[bigsim]

I wasn't mentioned, so I disagree.

You were implied in the "and a bunch of other people", and you're new to the arguments so you don't get your name mentioned explicitly. Maybe next time.

After all, it is quite a fun dance.

Like the Macarena. Or the Nutbush.

I feel the same in reverse, People will make weak arguments that border on idiocy when comes to admitting that mod chips are for piracy in 99% of cases.

One would think you'd feel differently, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense for us to be arguing with you. But I have to wonder - if you feel the arguments will be inevitably circular, why make the thread in the first place?

We know we've had this discussion time and time again, but we don't mind having it again because we hope they'll learn something or someone else will in the process.

Fair enough I guess. I just find it really frustrating. And I told myself I wasn't going to get involved but now that I'm here...

My favourite analogy for it is a knife. Knifes are mighty useful things. They cut a bunch of stuff (meat, potatoes, bread) but, in the wrong hands, could be quite lethal. And I'm sure we all agree that killing is illegal. But are people (misteromar, that other dude) calling for a ban on knives?

Where's the consistency?

[JemaKnight]

Say you built someone a PC, would it be ok for you to have complete control over it after they bought it?

42

[SabreLime]

I wasn't mentioned, so I disagree.

You were implied in the "and a bunch of other people", and you're new to the arguments so you don't get your name mentioned explicitly. Maybe next time.


Yet you still did not mention me, so you are wrong. I mean, seriously, how can you make a post containing the word "this" and not mention me?

[Boo!]

yet every time these threads happen every single one of your arguments gets countered and you ignore questions. I'm still waiting on an answer to my original question.


Thats how I feel too.

Do you seriously think that is a decent response to Smoko's statement? He has made incredibly valid and thought-out points but all you can say is 'it should be illegal because you can do illegal stuff with it'...

To repeat nearly everyone in this thread, you can do illegal shit with nearly everything, does that mean we should ban everything?

[m0nk3y]

This whole argument of modchips and shite.

I sort of have to back up Smoko in the comment below:

Its like a mobile phone. Whatever brand (Nokia, Sony ericsson etc) you buy a phone, you put MP3's on it, you customise the desktop with themes etc.

You know how you all get the cheap shit phones, or the phones that wont let you set an MP3 as a ringtone/messagetone.

I believe by looking at "modchips" and smoko's aregument, its the same thing. You own the hardware, you "should" be able to customise it.

[m0nk3y]

Its the same with pre-paid phones (to modders) thing of it this way. You buy a prepaid its locked to Telstra/Optus/Vodafone etc (Current Nintendo hardware)> You pay some money to them and they give you a code to unlock it (mod chip) bam, you can now put whatever software you want on it, or whatever sim card you want on it (homebrew)

The only difference here is, its a games machine from a company you all like/ (as do i).

You may or may not agree with what is said, but can you people not see his argument/points. They are relevant and valid.

[nephilim]

well I know 2 people on all the aussie websites i visit on brawl legit, I am 1

scene is pathetic, I assume most are just going to redownload the usa version in a week

[TSPhoenix]

Just FYI you can't play imported SSBB on a non-Japanese console at all.

[Smoko]

Just FYI you can't play imported SSBB on a non-Japanese console at all.

Since when?

[Raven]

Just FYI you can't play imported SSBB on a non-Japanese console at all.
Hilarious....

Quick note. I find it amusing people who think that the new 'wii freeloader' is more legit than a modchip...

To me, the whole modding thing to me is like cars.
You buy a car you really like, but there is a disclaimer that says:
"You are not allowed to put in your own cd player... and dont even think about playing your music in that thing!"
(cd player being analogous to a mod, and music being homebrew).

Car companies will ALWAYS sell you a vehicle with an inferior head unit, and it is perfectly acceptable to modify your car to perform better. They have made the sale, and the car is now in your hands to do WHATEVER you want to do with it.

Yes, I agree piracy is bad. But it is unfair to asscociate the entire of the modding community with software pirates.

Even misteromar would have to agree with me that a 9month (Reggie says Fall....) wait behind other regions for SSBB is absolutely disgusting. It has been out long enough for me that I have lost a LOT of the buzz that comes with a new game that ive been waiting for since wii launch. Is it fair that Nintendo can do this to its PAL customers?

If I remember rightly, last time there was a massive modding debate, a certain forum member who preached 'console modding is the devil' had a harddrive with illegally downloaded music.... "But that was different" apparantly.

Just my 2c. I would like for all games to be region free. I wouldnt mind too much if modchips became illegal. Because I know that the people who do homebrew and other 'cool things' will continue to do so. Sorry smoko, but I believe that not much bad would happen to the homebrew industry if they were made illegal. In this case, the good far outweighs the bad.

(feel free to argue me on this one... I will be mature and reply, even if just to say that I am wrong!)

[White Lion]

Actually, the 'retail import' of brawl doesn't work on any modded system. Back-ups do though.

[Green Bay]

Quick note. I find it amusing people who think that the new 'wii freeloader' is more legit than a modchip...


What is your reasoning behind this? Modchips are legal. I want a freeloader because it will let me play original games such as No More Heroes and US Brawl. I would be importing these games as would many people.

The only thing the freeloader does is reduce the number of games sold in PAL countries.

Im 100% hardcore nintendo but if the freeloader can offer me something they cant at the moment why would i not take it.

[Smoko]

I wouldnt mind too much if modchips became illegal. Because I know that the people who do homebrew and other 'cool things' will continue to do so. Sorry smoko, but I believe that not much bad would happen to the homebrew industry if they were made illegal. In this case, the good far outweighs the bad.

What makes you think that people who pirate would stop simply because modchips are illegal? People still pirate, steal, kill and a whole bunch of other things that break the law. Why make peoples legitimate hobbies illegal when it won't stop the people already breaking the law?

Actually, the 'retail import' of brawl doesn't work on any modded system. Back-ups do though.

This (http://youtube.com/watch?v=KW1P5hS_t00) video begs to differ. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cridzaNrB0) one does too.

[Raven]

I wouldnt mind too much if modchips became illegal. Because I know that the people who do homebrew and other 'cool things' will continue to do so. Sorry smoko, but I believe that not much bad would happen to the homebrew industry if they were made illegal. In this case, the good far outweighs the bad.

What makes you think that people who pirate would stop simply because modchips are illegal? People still pirate, steal, kill and a whole bunch of other things that break the law. Why make peoples legitimate hobbies illegal when it won't stop the people already breaking the law?
Sorry, let me clarify.
The way I understand it is, if Australia becomes region free, then mod chipping becomes illegal. Which I dont mind because I am sure that the good stuff that comes from mod chips (homebrew, etc etc) will continue, whether it is legal or not. I am going to take a short step out of my knowledge and say that 'we have seen this with the DS, whereby it is region free and homebrew is large and happy'.

I agree wholeheartedly that making modchips illegal wont stop piracy, but to be honest, I have little concern for that. I dont pirate games, and i can only assume that a few people downloading the games isnt going to stop Nintendo from releasing games.

[TSPhoenix]

Does it? Is region locking the only reason modding is legal here or is it the general belief that you can do whatever you like to what you own?

[Raven]

Does it? Is region locking the only reason modding is legal here or is it the general belief that you can do whatever you like to what you own?
Oldie but a goodie.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/03/23/1016843080416.html

Just to quote part of the article regarding modchips...
Sony's last line of defence is the copyright law, new parts of which have yet to be tested in court. By copying and selling games, dealers are certainly breaking the law. Sony successfully chases and prosecutes the bigger operators, though it says it is not worth its while to chase down smaller operators, many of whom burn discs to order in their bedrooms.

Mod chipping is a legally grey area. According to Sony, new provisions in the Copyright Act mean it is now against the law to modify a console solely for the purpose of playing pirate games.

But because the mod chips do many things, the chippers say their aim is simply to over-ride Sony's regional restrictions (Regional Playback Control, or RPC) which prevent console owners from playing legally acquired overseas games, legally copied "back-up" discs and overseas DVDs.

It's a loophole Sony is trying to close, which is why it is has taken a mod chipper to the Federal Court. If it wins its case it may set a precedent that effectively bans mod chipping.

But gamers have an ally in the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, which has intervened in the case as a "friend of the court". The ACCC argues that Sony's interpretation of the copyright law could result in anti-competitive restrictions on console owners.

While the ACCC does not condone piracy, it does believe gamers have the right to modify their machines so they can play overseas discs and back-up discs without restriction. Chairman Allan Fels says: "RPC prevents the use of imported games. It also restricts the use of copied games. It is not illegal under current copyright legislation to play either imported or copied games." The ACCC does make it clear that copying and selling games infringes on copyright law. However, says Professor Fels, "simply playing a disc does not".

[TSPhoenix]

So basically even if the console was region free, unless it was totally open like a PC it would still be chippable.

[cribes]

i have my wii chipped but its not with a chip. they program the american and japanese formats so no risk of damaging the system itself with short circuit or overheating. awesome ay.

[Curt]

i have my wii chipped but its not with a chip. they program the american and japanese formats so no risk of damaging the system itself with short circuit or overheating. awesome ay.

???

Sure... and im the queen of sheeba :roll:

[Smoko]

i have my wii chipped but its not with a chip. they program the american and japanese formats so no risk of damaging the system itself with short circuit or overheating. awesome ay.

Could you explain what you're talking about, or are you really that stupid?

[nephilim]

well there reports on gbatemp chip increases chance of ur wii drive messing up (seems to happen to quite a few members), not that stupid

[Smoko]

well there reports on gbatemp chip increases chance of ur wii drive messing up (seems to happen to quite a few members), not that stupid

Yes it is, actually. How can you have a chipped Wii without a modchip?

Also, where are these reports and/or a link explaining what in the hell he is talking about?